Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT_ZIP/spacedig/V13_6/V13_678.ZIP/V13_678

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Subject: SPACE Digest V13 #678

SPACE Digest                                     Volume 13 : Issue 678

Today's Topics:
              Re: The Long Term
              Re: Good for the Japanese
            Re: Gibson & Sterling
            Re: Gibson & Sterling
               Re: satellite refuelling
             Re: Help for science writer
         Re: Moonbase movie *Plymouth* to air Sunday?
                Re: Astrolabes
         Re: INFO: Clandestine Mars Observer Launch??
         Re: INFO: Clandestine Mars Observer Launch??

Administrivia:

    Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to
  [e-mail].  Other mail, esp. [un]subscription requests,
  should be sent to [e-mail], or, if urgent, to
             [e-mail]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 29 May 91 05:03:30 GMT
From: cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: The Long Term

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Kevin S. Van Horn) writes:
>>>One year is long term? ...
>>Well, in the US it is...
>Give me a break.  I'm always hearing about how American business doesn't look
>past the next quarter's profits.  But what do you call it when a group of
>venture capitalists finances a startup (like the one I'm working for -- MasPar)
>with the expectation that they'll have to wait maybe five years to see a
>return on their money?

Medium term at best.  Ask the Japanese.
--
"We're thinking about upgrading from    | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
SunOS 4.1.1 to SunOS 3.5."              |  [e-mail]  utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Date: 29 May 91 21:31:13 GMT
From: cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!hela![e-mail]  (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: Re: Good for the Japanese

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>BTW, where were all the astronaut supporters screaming about
>"international agreements" when Solar-Polar got cut to feed the overgrown
>Shuttle budget?  What a bunch of hypocrites.

This one was screaming from Dallas Texas. It is also interesting to note
that when unmanned space science probes where in danger from the suits
filed by the Christic Institute it was the 'pro-astronaut' space organization
which filed briefs and held counter-protests to support launch.

Where you screaming about international agreements when solar-polar
got cut?

  Allen
--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Allen W. Sherzer |   DETROIT: Where the weak are killed and eaten.         |
|   [e-mail]   |                                                         |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Date: 30 May 91 09:03:48 GMT
From: mintaka!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!sugar!taronga![e-mail]  (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: Gibson & Sterling

halcyon![e-mail] (Demosthenes) writes:
> the space station (which MIGHT be up in our lifetimes, MIGHT)
> has been scaled back so that it could no longer serve as a platform for
> Mars missions (although this cutback is being fought by NASA)

Who cares about Mars missions? Not I. That's the problem with the space
station... and all sorts of other NASA stuff: they have *no* idea what
they want to do. In fact, they don't even have the saving grace of having
a bad goal: they have no goals at all.

I say, blow off Mars, use the moon as a staging point at most (why do we
need a space station when we've already *got* one?) and get serious about
taking advantage of small matter: asteroids, comets, moons. We don't have
the technology or resources to take on the planet we've got *now*, let
alone starting over on another one.

> a corporation in Japan is planning on putting
> a hotel in orbit by 2020.

Corporations have been "planning" stuff like this since the '60s.
--
Peter da Silva.  `-_-'  Taronga Park BBS  [phone]/n/8/1
 Taronga Park.    'U`       "Have you hugged your wolf, today?"

------------------------------

Date: 30 May 91 14:00:53 GMT
From: cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!rex!rouge![e-mail]  (Fraering Philip)
Subject: Re: Gibson & Sterling

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Peter da Silva) writes:

\Who cares about Mars missions? Not I. That's the problem with the space
/station... and all sorts of other NASA stuff: they have *no* idea what
\they want to do. In fact, they don't even have the saving grace of having
/a bad goal: they have no goals at all.

\I say, blow off Mars, use the moon as a staging point at most (why do we
/need a space station when we've already *got* one?) and get serious about
\taking advantage of small matter: asteroids, comets, moons. We don't have
/the technology or resources to take on the planet we've got *now*, let
\alone starting over on another one.

[Hi! David Brumley would say hi, but he doesn't read sci.space. Too
many flames from Nazi Communist L-5 Illuminati Scandiknavians.]

It's kind of nice seeing someone crossposting in support of asteroid,
comet, and lunar resource use.

Sometimes I think NASA has completely forgotten about the possibilities
in all that.

Why is it that there seems to be a large group of people who want to
have a direct launch manned Mars mission (and I don't mean the sort
Paul Koloc would build) ?
--
Phil Fraering || Usenet (?):[e-mail] || YellNet: 318/365-5418
Standard disclaimer, whatever a disclaimer is, applies.
''It hardly mattered now; it was, in fact, a fine and enviable
madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is
beyond the reach of a strong left arm.`` - Larry Niven and Jerry
Pournelle, _The Mote in God's Eye_

------------------------------

Date: 30 May 91 18:35:41 GMT
From: sun-barr!newstop!geraldo.Central.Sun.COM!male!jethro!exodus!concertina.Eng.Sun.COM![e-mail]  (Steve Hix)
Subject: Re: satellite refuelling

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>For most satellites, the cost of a refueling mission will not be
>significantly smaller than the cost of launching a new generation, more
>capable satellite.

Eventually, perhaps not too long from now, the rate of improvement of
satellite capability is going to slow down.  The difference in performance
of a fighter in 1918 compared to one from 1945 is a lot greater than the
difference between one from 1965 and one from 1990.  There still is some,
but the rate of change in performance has leveled off quite a bit.

--
------------
  The only drawback with morning is that it comes
    at such an inconvenient time of day.
------------

------------------------------

Date: 30 May 91 18:24:34 GMT
From: unmvax!uokmax![e-mail]  (Robert W Murphree)
Subject: Re: Help for science writer

An interesting topic is the origin of complexity.  John d. Barrow the physicist
said in a New scientist article that although we know the laws of the universe
have various beautiful simplicities and symettries-and we know about symmetry
breaking-the pencil standing on end representing the symmetry before the big
bang.  We are just beginning to understand how complexity comes out of these
symmmetries-the I. prigonine irreversible thermodynamics stuff is part of
this .  I think this is fascinating stuff and is not well known.  I think
it would be interesting to see if a science writer-not necessariy a newspaper
science writer-could tackle such a subject.

Send me a copy if you get interested in this subject.
:r /uokmax/group4/rwmurphr/me

------------------------------

Date: 30 May 91 19:55:38 GMT
From: cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!newstop!geraldo.Central.Sun.COM!central!csccat!ncmicro![e-mail]  (Lance Franklin)
Subject: Re: Moonbase movie *Plymouth* to air Sunday?

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (hermann) writes:
}more spoilers follow
}
}
}More technical problems:
}
}- an airlock door in the moonrover garage that consisted mostly of glass.
}There is no need to put glass in an airlock door, and it complicates the
}engineering enormously. Put a viewport in the bulkhead next to it.

Well, this seems perfectly practical to me...let's face it, one thing the
moon has plenty of is sand...seems to me glass would be a fine construction
material on the moon, since all you really need is a solar furnace and a
mold to pour the stuff into.  I did notice all the glass was rather rough.
Seems consistant with glass poured into a rough mold...and I imagine that
glass is quite tough when it's several inches thick, although I'm sure
there's somebody with more expertise out there that can confirm or deny
this.

}- an emergency manual override in a pressure door that the kids had to
}operate through a keypad next to the door (which of course failed for some
}reason). A _manual_ override should be just that, manual. Preferably simple
}and easy enough to use that you can get the door open quickly, even in
}darkness with the wind of decompression blowing around you.
}
}At least they knew enough to have the airlock doors opening _inwards_, so
}that air pressure holds them shut. And if for some stupid reason someone has
}left it open, it will _automagically_ swing shut in the event of a blowout.

I also noted that they seemed to have an explosive device that blew a plug
to open a passage for air to compress the airlock in an emergency.  Perhaps
I'm a bit conservative, but I don't think I would particularly like to
have an electrically-operated explosive device in a position where it can,
if it blows accidentally, reduce the room to a vacuum in a few seconds.

Lance

--
Lance T. Franklin            +----------------------------------------------+
([e-mail])   | "You want I should bop you with this here    |
NC Microproducts, Inc.       |    Lollipop?!?"                 The Fat Fury |
Richardson, Texas            +----------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: 30 May 91 16:50:14 GMT
From: ecsgate!stat.appstate.edu!ms.appstate.edu![e-mail]  (Kenneth H. Jacker)
Subject: Re: Astrolabes

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Doug Brownell) writes:

>Greetings

>I was just introduced to a reproduction of a 13th century astrolabe ...

>Does anyone know where such marvels can be purchased for less than a small
>fortune?  The one I saw was nearly $300 (gold electroplated), but the
>design is so simple that there's got to be one for under $100, and
>maybe even $50.  I'd really apprecieat any leads as to where I might
>search for one.

A couple of years ago I bought a very inexpensive (~$10?) cardboard/plastic
astrolabe.  Here's the company & address as contained on the front page of the
20 page manual included with the kit:

    Glen Ellen Scientific Company
    PO Box 999
    Glen Ellen, CA 95442

Good luck!

--
-------
Kenneth H. Jacker            Domain:   [e-mail]
Dept of Math Sciences                  [e-mail]
Appalachian State Univ
Boone, NC  28608             BITNET:   khj@appstate

------------------------------

Date: 1 Jun 91 00:22:23 GMT
From: swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jarthur!nntp-server.caltech.edu!iago.caltech.edu![e-mail]  (Lydick, Carl)
Subject: Re: INFO: Clandestine Mars Observer Launch??

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Don Allen)
writes...
>     ParaNet  has received information that Richard C.  Hoagland,
>the  noted author of The Monuments of Mars - a book  detailing  a
>possible  surface anomaly on the planet, that NASA  has  covertly
>launched  the Mars observer spacecraft to speed to Mars  to  find
>out  what  is  going on up there.  Below is  a  reprint  of  that
>article.   Our members are encouraged to provide any  information
>that would substantiate or disavow these claims.

Thanks, Don.  The folks upstairs working on the Mars Observer Camera got a
pretty good laugh out of this.  Also, isn't this the SAME Richard C. Hoagland
who, as of about two years ago, was running around ranting that NASA was trying
to SUPPRESS investigation of the Cydonia formations?  Hey, if you believe in
enough contradictory conspiracies, eventually you may even believe in one that
EXISTS!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick    HEPnet/NSI: SOL1::CARL    Internet: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 31 May 91 20:35:29 GMT
From: casbah.acns.nwu.edu!ils.nwu.edu!aristotle.ils.nwu.edu![e-mail]  (Eric Shafto)
Subject: Re: INFO: Clandestine Mars Observer Launch??

[e-mail] (Don Allen) writes:
>
> [lots of blather deleted]
>

There's one born every minute...

--
*Eric Shafto             * Sometimes, I think we are alone.  Sometimes I  *
*Institute for the       * think we are not.  In either case, the thought *
*    Learning Sciences   * is quite staggering.                           *
*Northwestern University *     -- R. Buckminster Fuller                   *

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V13 #678
*******************